Author Topic: My various shop problems  (Read 5313 times)

Carpenter84

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2021, 07:18:26 PM »
Terry,
First, I am aware of the danger with high pressure oils. Seen the high pressure first hand, as well in training.

Second, I absolutely noticed one valve cleaner than the other. Under the valve caps. I suspected that was a sign. I will start on that one.

There's a lot of hob cobbled portions of the engine... But it runs VERY well and generates the power I need. It is noisy, but I don't hear it inside the shop, and being out in the middle of nowhere, the noise doesn't bother anyone.
I had solved the difficult starting I was dealing with over winter with a battery warming blanket, and battery maintainer and a can of starter fluid piped into the intake after the air filter. Starts right up. But, yes, it burns diesel, which costs money.
But when it runs well, I see no reason to stop using it.

The only annoying part is the engine is in an enclosed trailer. I believe this unit was used by city road crews. So it's difficult to work on due to space. Basically have to straddle the engine to work on it.

Now that warm weather is coming, I'm considering a decent overhaul of the unit and getting it out of the rickety metal trailer - which I assume is GREATLY enhancing the noise level. I wanted to build an enclosure for the unit but we will see.

I told Jonathan last year when I noticed it was leaking oil that we needed to make a decision on what to invest money into. Either the Lister, the Ford - which I suspected might run better and quieter being water cooled, or RPC or 3 phase service.

This Lister is probably the easiest to fix up. And I don't need 22kw of power from the Ford.


Carpenter84

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2021, 09:13:49 AM »
Awesome post, Jake.
That's incredibly helpful. I'm going to try to dig into it maybe tonight. Just waiting for Jonathan to bring some oil.

jpigg55

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2021, 10:43:51 AM »
Does the engine use a speed changer to drive the generator ?

Either way, if it were me, I'd swap out the engine for an electric motor drive. Little to no maintenance, can be set indoors since there's no engine exhaust or noise, and no need for storing fuel.

Since the Lister only runs at 1,800 rpm, you can use a 2 or 3 HP 3,450 rpm single phase motor with a 1.92:1 speed reducer. That should give you the 1,800 rpm for the generator.
The speed reduction reduces the needed motor HP to drive the generator.
This will be different if the engine uses a speed increaser to spin the generator at 3,600 rpm. For that, you'd need to use a 1:1.04 speed increase to direct drive the generator to get 60 Hz frequency. It would require a bigger HP motor as well.
Logan 6560H, SB 9A, Clausing 8520, Sanford MG 612

jpigg55

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2021, 11:15:22 AM »
.....and then there's this if you're up for a road trip: https://www.mylittlesalesman.com/2014-lister-petter-dn2-engine-9979330
Logan 6560H, SB 9A, Clausing 8520, Sanford MG 612

Carpenter84

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2021, 11:36:12 AM »
Changing the engine out for an electric would make little to no sense to me. The cost would be prohibitive, I would just buy an RPC.
There no speed change. Generator is also running at 1800rpm, which is common for 3 phase generators.

I'm not changing anything about the setup. It's already wired in and set in place. If I changed anything it would be to just get the power pack out of the big ugly yellow trailer it currently lives in. The sheet metal walls probably double the noise level. But again, the system works very well. If I make a drastic change that involves thousands, I will either go RPC, or change to a 3 phase hydro service. Then I don't have to worry about anything at all. But, I'd have to have some pretty solid customers at that point. And as far as cyclical billing is concerned... I already pay a hydro bill up there, it would probably just get a bit bigger...

I'm more than confident the engine just needs a healthy tune up. Those Lister engines can usually survive a nuclear strike and keep ticking. I'm going to suggest that engine hasn't seen any love in more than a decade. I'm sure it's just due. And then I'm sure it will happily run for another 50 years... I just needed some info on the engine, and frankly, some confidence.
Shawn

jpigg55

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2021, 04:32:45 PM »
I hope you're right about the engine, diesel overhauls can get pricey.
RPC will give you 3-phase, but not 600 volts. To get that, you'd have to find a 3-phase transformer to boost the voltage from 240v to 600v.

https://www.americanrotary.com/products/view/diy-panels/?attribute_model=Panel-10&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3urU_qGp7wIVEfHACh1ywQqFEAQYAyABEgK0efD_BwE

https://store.maddoxtransformer.com/collections/general-purpose-600v-class-dry-type-transformers/products/3-phase-encapsulated-autotransformer-600-480-400-240-208v?variant=31596066996307

Short of getting the engine back in shape, the cheapest solution I could think of was to use a single phase motor to drive the generator, but requires some sort of gear change to drive the generator at the proper RPM to get 60 Hz frequency output.
Logan 6560H, SB 9A, Clausing 8520, Sanford MG 612

Carpenter84

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2021, 06:01:15 PM »
The generator output is 240v. I have a step up transformer already.
I think I found the leak. The link Jake posted absolutely helped me determine the leak source.
I understand diesel engines are expensive to work on - modern diesels, but gotta remember this is an old Lister engine... It can be repaired with a wrench and a tube of liquid gasket and a mallet. And then run for another 50 years - from what I've been reading.
It appears it may just be a loose connection, or at worse, a seal.

Jonathan and I have been taking about getting the unit out of the old enclosed trailer, giving it some love and a proper setting to run. I've actually kinda grown fond of the old girl.

Carpenter84

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2021, 08:32:53 PM »
Fixed the leak I could see. And a lot of fuel was coming out! Just a loose connection...
Now to get all that bad oil out...

I'll get the oil level nice and keep a major close eye on it.

jpigg55

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2021, 09:07:49 AM »
Ahhh, I thought the generator was 600v.
As for the oil change, I'd recommend draining, change oil & filter, roll engine over for a few seconds, and change oil & filter again to ensure you flush all the diesel fuel out of the case.
Logan 6560H, SB 9A, Clausing 8520, Sanford MG 612

Carpenter84

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2021, 09:19:41 AM »
I changed the oil already, but didn't have a filter. I will get one as soon as I remember to check what the filter is. The fuel... I mean oil, was pretty thin, I kept the drain plug open the whole time I was working. So, every drop that was going to come out did.
I ran the engine for about an hour last night. I checked it before I left, it didn't turn too dark, so there may not have been much residual left.

I have another jug of oil, I will change it again once I get the filter. My intension already was to flush it.
Same with the new lathe. I changed all the oils with the iso 46 I had left. The oil recommended in the manual is in the back or my truck. I wanted to get some run time before I drain it again.
The oil in the headstock had already been changed, but the oil in the apron was full of coolant sludge.

Crossing threads here... I did flush out the coolant tank too. Not so much a tank as it is just the hollowed out leg under the tailstock. I poured in a bunch of the garage floor degreaser I had, sloshed it around a bunch, ran the plump with the hose in the sump to circulate it.
Interesting pump. Kind of like a centrifugal pump. No seals or orings actually in the liquid. The impeller is run off a shaft with the motor about 6" above the fluid level. If you stall the flow, the pump sound doesn't change at all. The fluid just whips around the tank more. So, obviously designed for harsh environment and could handle chunks. So I wasn't worried about the degreaser affecting anything.
Pulled the plug and drained, then just vacuumed out all the remaining crud. Made a new batch of coolant. Poured it in, got most of it on the floor, of course. Ran it, runs like a beaut. 
Shawn

4GSR

Re: My various shop problems
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2021, 03:08:13 PM »
That's your typical coolant pump you find on most machines old and new.  Impeller hangs down in the sump and motor is above the water line.  Yep!  All sounds good Shawn.