Author Topic: Where is everyone?  (Read 4238 times)

chips and more

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #75 on: July 29, 2019, 05:41:15 PM »
Cellular core ABSÖwhy are you using that? You mean the foam core stuff? Are you trying to keep the noise down? The plumperís around here use cast iron for noise control. Like doing the second floor in cast iron. Can't bend cast iron pipe very well either LOL.

woodchucker

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #76 on: July 29, 2019, 05:57:38 PM »
Cellular core ABSÖwhy are you using that? You mean the foam core stuff? Are you trying to keep the noise down? The plumperís around here use cast iron for noise control. Like doing the second floor in cast iron. Can't bend cast iron pipe very well either LOL.


I didn't know anyone used cast iron for houses anylonger .... at least for your regular house. Cast Iron is for the very wealthy these days.



Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

Carpenter84

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #77 on: July 29, 2019, 06:57:27 PM »
I'm not even sure cast iron is permitted to be installed in any new residential construction for DVW or potable water up here...


They sometimes still use it in commercial and industrial but only for storm
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

woodchucker

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #78 on: July 29, 2019, 09:00:11 PM »
I'm not even sure cast iron is permitted to be installed in any new residential construction for DVW or potable water up here...


They sometimes still use it in commercial and industrial but only for storm


Oh, I think it would be allowed. There are many homes  and apartment buildings over 100 years old with cast iron I am sure.
Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

Carpenter84

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #79 on: July 29, 2019, 09:13:37 PM »
**new residential construction.





All of the home inspection forms I've seen prior to renovations for houses with cast dvw and potable have all listed as to be removed.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

woodchucker

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #80 on: July 29, 2019, 10:24:19 PM »
**new residential construction.





All of the home inspection forms I've seen prior to renovations for houses with cast dvw and potable have all listed as to be removed.


What I meant, was that it lasts over a hundred years. PVC or plastic has yet to prove itself longevity wise. So I think cast Iron is certainly an allowed item. I can't believe they would say it's not allowed. If they did, it is bizarre.
Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

chips and more

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #81 on: July 30, 2019, 07:26:55 AM »
The cast iron might have longevity. But Iím not sure about the connectors that are used to join the cast iron pipes together. Itís a stainless strap thing with a neoprene seal. You are supposed to use a special torque wrench to tighten the strap. You can go back a day later and the strap thing will have lost the proper torque. And that neoprene seal is critical to keeping it all sealed. Just how long that rubber will last is anybodyís guess.

woodchucker

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #82 on: July 30, 2019, 09:12:39 AM »
The cast iron might have longevity. But Iím not sure about the connectors that are used to join the cast iron pipes together. Itís a stainless strap thing with a neoprene seal. You are supposed to use a special torque wrench to tighten the strap. You can go back a day later and the strap thing will have lost the proper torque. And that neoprene seal is critical to keeping it all sealed. Just how long that rubber will last is anybodyís guess.


back in the day they would pour lead into the joints, to seal them... later solder bars.. The neoprene was a late comer for sure.
Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

Carpenter84

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #83 on: July 30, 2019, 09:22:00 AM »
You're talking about a Furnco fitting. That's what we use now to connect to old cast. They can be a pain, yes. You usually need to grind the connection surface to remove the rust.
Back 100 years ago they soldered the cast together with lead - which is also no longer permitted by code.

So, before I go and stick my foot on my mouth, I checked the code.
Cast iron is permitted by code for soil pipe drainage and venting. And follow a long list of certification requirements. Like I said, I've mainly seen it used in storm water drainage in large buildings/apartment buildings. Never seen a new install in residential. And I've worked on houses up to $7 million.
It is NOT permitted in water delivery. For obvious reasons.

The reason it is quickly removed in renovations is BECAUSE it's 100 years old. There are better, cheaper, and more efficient products available, so we use them. However, we generally only remove in the area we are working. I tear out the old cast back to the furthest point I am working and redo what's necessary in  ABS and PVC then make one connection to the cast. Usually just before the pipe leaves the house to the street. Or in worse case scenarios, we dig up the yard and remove the cast if it has cracked/separated and roots have grown into the pipe.

I have not seen or heard it's use for the wealthy. It just simply is not an effective or efficient product. There is no advantage over ABS and PVC.
You are correct in the fact that we have no seen 100 year old ABS. But I have seen ABS from the 1960's. And it held up fine. No degradation.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

woodchucker

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #84 on: July 30, 2019, 10:18:40 AM »
I have not seen or heard it's use for the wealthy. It just simply is not an effective or efficient product. There is no advantage over ABS and PVC.
You are correct in the fact that we have no seen 100 year old ABS. But I have seen ABS from the 1960's. And it held up fine. No degradation.


The one advantage is noise. A PVC or ABS pipe is noisy compared to CAST IRON.  Those of use that had them remember them.  I remember the first time in a PVC home and it was loud by comparison.


And that's where I remember the original decisions being made for the wealthy, granted that argument may no longer hold water  :P
Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

Carpenter84

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #85 on: July 30, 2019, 12:34:21 PM »
I think it may also depend on where you live and the building materials used. If the house is primarily conventionally stick framed (platform framed), cast iron would be a huge liability just souly based on the allowable movement of a house. Is there movement allowed with cast? Can it handle any flex? Stick framed houses move quite a bit. In my mind I could see problems arise if special care is not given for the cast to be allowed to move around. Where ABS can flex, and is generally strapped/secured rather tightly.

Where, maybe in another part of the world where the structure is block, brick, or cement, and movement is a minimum, cast may fair better?
I'm just discussing now. I really have no knowledge in this field.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #86 on: July 30, 2019, 12:49:27 PM »
I've had one experience with cast iron pipe in a old house I used to own.  Bath tub drain was giving me heck.  Wood frame house on piers, down here stilts, had to dig out a place just to get my ass under the house far enough to get to the piping.  Wound up cutting out by hand with hacksaw the section of pipe to the tub.  Spliced in a new section of 2" PVC with new trap and pipe up to the tub.  Of course, used a rubber boot to make the crossover from cast iron to PVC.  Bought three different one's from the lumber yard I used to deal with.  Took the other two back and got my money back.  Made my decision then to never mess with C.I. pipe ever again. 

Our house back home was a package house designed for the northern states.  It came with all copper pipe and bronze fittings for waste pipe.  Think it didn't make noise when shi^ went down hill?

woodchucker

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2019, 09:08:36 AM »
As far as I can tell , we had no posts yesterday...


Just putting a marker out there...
Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

Machinists Gazette

Re: Where is everyone?
« Reply #87 on: November 16, 2019, 09:08:36 AM »