Author Topic: Gear vs Belt drive  (Read 550 times)

jpigg55

Gear vs Belt drive
« on: July 14, 2019, 08:58:38 AM »
Another loaded question I know, but looking for opinions on gear drive lathes.
I currently have a little SB9 lathe and have been looking for something with more swing over bed distance. I found this one not too far away that I'm scheduled to go look at later this week.
I've never ran a gear head lathe so not familiar with any advantages or disadvantages to them.
Also looking for opinions on asking price for this unit: https://peoria.craigslist.org/tls/d/edwards-12x36-lathe/6928405482.html
SB 9A, Clausing 8520, Sanford MG 612

woodchucker

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2019, 09:18:47 AM »
A gear head can be much quieter, easier to use as far as changing speeds.
When you have a crash or if you have a crash with a belt, you are likely to slip the belt... when you crash a gear head, you are likely to have some damage (bend, missing chunk of metal, broken teeth).


I have an SB9, and I would like a bigger unit too. especially a bigger spindle throat. I would like a gear head as well.


I think that is priced too high, because it is a Central Machinery. Does Grizzly still stock parts for that lathe?
If parts are avail, you can make a mistake and fix it. If not, you will be hard pressed to fix it, you'll have to make the replacement part.


Is the chuck a Taper chuck, a D-?   you don't want a threaded chuck on that 12"



Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

4GSR

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2019, 10:17:23 AM »
Both my 14' and 15" lathes are gear head.  If I get into a wreck, first the tool gets destroyed, I've tore up a piece or two of tooling over the years, not on these lathes.  Next, the tool holder gets all jacked up, those Aloris tool holders can take a beating! and not hurt them other than bend the adjusting screw.  I've never yanked a tool post off the lathe, yet.

As for damaging the gearing in the headstock, haven't done any. My lathes are direct drive from the spindle thru belts to the motor.  The only time they slower spindle speeds the VFD's won't do, then the back gears are engaged.

That brings up a good point, if you can find a lathe in the 12-15" range that is belt drive, direct from the motor to the spindle, this might be your best bet.  At least is is for giving on mishaps.  The smaller Asian brand gear head lathes if got into an wreck could possibly take out the entire headstock.  Not just a gear or two, probably bend a shaft or two in the process.  I would hope the under powered motors would stall out preventing too much damage.

The lathe I was using where I wiped out a large threading tool 1" sq. shank was on a 16" Axelson lathe.  All gear head, 7-1/2 HP 1940's style motor that probably developed 20 HP under sudden load!  It took the threading tool out at a blink of an eye!  Quick action on the headstock clutch saved the tool post from damage.  But took out my $100 threading tool out that I just bought!  Damaged to any of the gearing? None!!!


Ken

Terrywerm

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Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2019, 10:47:19 AM »
It cannot hurt to drive up there and have a look at it, but at that price it had better be in nearly perfect mechanical condition. Yes, it does have two QCTPs besides the four way tool post that is currently mounted on the cross slide, and everything appears to be there accompanied by plenty of other tooling. It isn't really what I would be looking for, but if it is in exceptional condition, I would consider $1500 as the absolute top price, and even that may be a tad high. Lets hope the seller is asking high and expecting less.
Terry

Making chips with old machines!

Carpenter84

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2019, 11:36:01 AM »
That's a pretty good price for up here. Lathes like that are $2500 in my neck of the woods. I bought my lathe for $600 cause that's all I had and the seller took pitty. But I could easily sell my mediocre 10" for nearly 2k if I wanted. Hobby machines are rare, sell fast if priced right, or, they're too expensive. That said, there's also a bunch of machinery dealers on the other side of Toronto who sell 12"+ lathes for wayy too much...


https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-business-industrial/mississauga-peel-region/metal-lathe/1446694231

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/markham-york-region/lathe-craftex-b2227k-metal-lathe-10-x18/1446653808

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/mississauga-peel-region/2016-metal-lathe-excellent-condition/1444979876

However, there are a few huge lathes for very cheap available. Albeit, likely completely clapped out...

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/mississauga-peel-region/metal-lathe/1434146084
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2019, 11:56:55 AM »
That R-P looks to be in really nice shape.  Very good chance that it has H& G ways!  Late model, too! Late 1950's early 1960's, maybe later.  If I'm not mistaken, I think Simmons MAchine Tool, who bought out R-P may have moved this line up to CA in the 1960's, not sure on that.  There's lots of good information over on PM about these lathes, just a bitch to search for.
Ken

4GSR

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2019, 12:01:30 PM »
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-other-business-industrial/mississauga-peel-region/metal-lathe/1446694231

This one is the same capacity as my 14" Rockwell lathe.  At least it has a slightly heavier tailstock on than on mine!
That would be about the same price down here second hand.  Problem is they don't show up much down here either in my neck of the woods, I mean scroungy bushes of south Texas!
Ken

Carpenter84

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 01:11:21 PM »
Once I'm in the new shop, I will be looking for a bigger lathe. Can't go wrong with $1000 for that lathe. Moving it would be an issue. And it's condition is obviously of concern. But for hobby use, it would just be another project...
It has been for sale for a while. The ad says it was posted 4 days ago, the ad must have expired and reposted because I remember seeing that lathe some time ago.

But I assume I will have to wait for a while before pushing to spend money on new machinery as by the time the shop is done to my liking, ill have spent waaaaay more than I estimated and will need time for her to calm down about the spending.

However, I also plan to try and step up the job shop work once done, too. And said new purchases would be done with shop income rather than day job income... We will see...

I think a 14" would do pretty much everything id ever encounter. And I'd try to keep the 10" I have now for the smaller stuff I need to spin up faster. It always concerns me when I encounter a lathe with a top speed of 750 rpm....
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

chips and more

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 04:12:23 PM »
That $1000 R-P has a 600V motor. That would be a deal breaker for me!

Bill Gruby

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2019, 04:18:16 PM »
 I hate to disillusion you guys , but look closer. The machine is Central Machinery. That's not Grizzly as stated, it's Harbor Freight.

 "Billy G"
Don't sweat getting old, you'll still do dumb shit, just slower.

An Optimist will tell you the glass is half full, the pessimist half empty, the engineer will say the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

woodchucker

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2019, 04:49:10 PM »
That $1000 R-P has a 600V motor. That would be a deal breaker for me!


Yea, that's a tough one to power. 600 V , probably only avail in an industrial area here.
480 would be more common here.
Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

Carpenter84

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2019, 05:17:49 PM »
The motor could be swapped I'm sure.
Not to mention, there are numerous gensets at the farmhouse. One of them I had already redone the wiring for. Our plan was to use it as a 3ph power source to plug into the building between our shops. It's only about 30amps. But would run one machine at a time. There are also several transformers kicking around. A 600v transformer is already built into this particular genset. But, the 7+ hp @ 600v that RP likely requires would be more than this genset could push. None the less, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if I were in the position to buy. Being completely clapped out, and only worth the $1000 he's selling it for would be the deal breaker. I have enough projects at the moment.... I'm also still a year away from moving in..... I'm sure the itch will over take me eventually and I'll buy another machine...
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2019, 05:21:39 PM »
If I wanted to push it.... If I could talk the guy down to say, $700, the bean counter MIGHT let me have it... But it would be an argument. For $700, if it ran, I'd store it under a tarp till the shop was enclosed at least.........



Dammit.... Look what I've started....
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2019, 05:27:13 PM »
Warden said no dice. Lol  >:(
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

jpigg55

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2019, 07:52:27 PM »
Good catch Billy G.
I was thinking it was a Grizzly, looks a lot like it.
HF doesn't seem to carry that model any more so I'm guessing replacement parts are out of the question unless it's identical to the Grizzly model.
I may still go give it a look, but knowing that, the price would have to come down quite a bit.
SB 9A, Clausing 8520, Sanford MG 612

Machinists Gazette

Re: Gear vs Belt drive
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2019, 07:52:27 PM »