Author Topic: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg  (Read 890 times)

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2018, 10:32:29 PM »
Alright. I ran some tests. I have no idea what it's telling me...

So, I put the 4 jaw in. Cleaned all the mating surfaces before hand. I locked my compound down cause it's quite loose and a huge contributor to chatter.
Chucked up a 2.5" bar stock with 6" stick out. Put a new DCMT insert in a cutter I never use. The one that points straight at the work, not a left or a right tool...

Shallow cuts. Nice finish. I did 4 runs. Over 6" the taper is as follows.

1- .0031"
2- .0030"
3- .0016"
4- .0013"

I have no idea what this means...
How can the taper just... go away?
What have I done ... Wrong?
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

ddickey

Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2018, 06:16:05 AM »
Maybe you changed your DOC?
Should be no more than .002"
Did the stock have mill scale?

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2018, 06:40:53 AM »
No mill scale. No rust. Docís were shallow. <.010Ē
The last pass I tried to go a bit deeper. Didnít really change much.

Iíll try another pass this morning maybe. Cold stock, cold machine. I have not changed the setup at all. Iíll go do one pass and see what it shows.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2018, 07:19:58 AM »
Ran two more passes.
First pass was about .010 doc. Taper was .0013.
Second pass .002 doc taper .0007

Should I take the bar out and rechuck it? Try again? I don't understand what's happening.
If we're basing the taper on cut pressure, then my last pass last night should have been a bigger taper. I took a heavier doc to see if things would change.
But to try to alleviate any pressure I had been starting my cut at the chuck and traveling outward.
That last .002 pass was the other way to not move the cross slide.
My 3 jaw chuck showed a significant taper. .003 over 4". It's not a cheap, or abused chuck, but I accept because it's a 3 jaw.
Then with the 4 jaw to start with a taper then it reduces to what I would consider VERY acceptable... That doesn't make sense to me. If the machine was out of align or worn, the taper should be the same always, no?
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

ddickey

Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2018, 03:41:40 PM »
What do you mean when you say your chuck shows a taper?

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2018, 07:36:04 PM »
The lathe is cutting a taper. I may have minced my words at some point and said the chuck was showing a taper. I'm not a stranger to screwing up the English language. Sorry about that.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2018, 09:54:13 AM »
Shawn,

Here's a machinery dealer in your neighborhood that you might want to check out.

http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/used-lathes.html#stdmod

Check out all of the Standard Modern lathes he has there.  I suspect these came from school shops up there.  Probably all in good shape.

Ken
Ken

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2018, 10:26:02 AM »
Yes, I've contacted them before as they are the only site I've found that advertises that they have a manual for my lathe. And have prints to make several replacement parts. I had contacted them when I was trying to sort out the threading issue that brought me to you guys in the first place.
His manuals and parts drawings are very expensive...
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2018, 10:42:28 AM »
I emailed him for the prices of the standard moderns and the 1330 enterprise. Which is a higher model of my lathe, actually.

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-tool-other/oshawa-durham-region/metal-lathe-needs-some-tlc/1376610992?utm_source=com.google.android.apps.docs&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_android

this guy has had this lathe for sale for some time. I emailed him about it last year, I think. He has the price very high to try and weed out some of the lowballers and because I don't think he knows what it's worth. Would be a nice project. But my wife is heading into a 5 week placement for school soon which means she will be out of work for most of that time. So, buying another lathe just isn't in the cards currently.
But things may change. My $730 a month truck payments will end in Nov, and my boss said he's going to get me a work van sometime in the new year. He just bought one for the other employee. So that would be another $600 a month savings just in gas. I WOULD like a bit bigger lathe. However I'm seriously limited on space. The 28" center to center I have now was already installed with a shoe horn. I'd have to drastically rearrange that corner of the garage. And certainly don't have room for two lathes. Unless I can get the air compressor out of there some how.
Bah. Too little room! Why did I have to have big expensive hobbies!
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2018, 11:46:11 AM »
Think your cramp for space?  You haven't seen my garage.  Three lathes, a mill, surface grinder, T & C grinder, and tons of support tooling in a two car garage.  Oh, had to give up a walkway in the front of the garage to the washer/dryer or I wouldn't have any clean clothes!  If it wasn't for that, I could move things around and the wife maybe could park her car in the garage!  Our hobbies, what would we do without them? I guess look at porn all day long.  That even gets bored after a while. :-[
Ken

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2018, 11:56:34 AM »
Hahaha.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

gerritv

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2018, 04:07:42 PM »
I'm confused, you did a .002" doc and got taper of .0007" over 6"? I would think this is quite decent for an old lathe.

If you want a more accurate test, I would use a HSS bit instead of carbide, you can get a better cut at those low doc's. Also wait till the steel cools off before measuring.

Lots of things can factor into there being a taper in this scenario.
- bad seating of chuck on spindle

- Spindle bearings not preloaded properly, taking very small doc will help offset this though.

- chuck jaws tapered, allowing piece to move while cutting

- headstock not aligned to ways, you would need a test bar to check this

Gerrit

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2018, 05:05:26 PM »
Yes, I was confused as well, how the taper can reduce with additional cuts.

I am going to look I to a test bar tomorrow. I've already sent an email out to my metal shop requesting info on shaft material.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Ulma Doctor

Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2018, 03:58:51 PM »
you can make a test bar out of most any metal-
aluminum & mild steel are good choices
you will want something in excess of 1", to reduce deflection
i'd make it at least 12" long, (but 14-16" is the length i use on my lathes)
then prep, and perform the 2 collar test
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 04:00:32 PM by Ulma Doctor »
9 Lathes, 5 Milling Machines, 6 Welders, 2 Surface Grinders, Shop Smith & woodworking stuff too !!!

MIKE WALTON

Carpenter84

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Re: Wear? Alignment? ... Uhhg
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2018, 05:44:31 PM »
I bought a length of ground shaft material. It was $10.

What's the "collar test"?
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.