Author Topic: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild  (Read 616 times)

Carpenter84

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MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« on: September 09, 2018, 11:26:51 PM »
I'm finally starting the thread for my lathe rebuild. It's going to be a LONG slow process. But I've decided to start.

My lathe, as mentioned above, is made in India. I do not know the history of this lathe, nor its company. It came to me in 2016, I believe, from a CNC shop in Markham, Ontario. The shop manager said he bought it to tinker with but at some point decided to sell. It had it listed for somewhere around $1000. I offered him a heartfelt story and all the money I had at the time, which was $600. He said he was happy to give it to someone who will use it and take care of it and accepted my offer. Elated, I didn't care what the wife said and I drove out to get it.
Etc.

The lathe had some issues and I've fixed them over the years. I did a test down of everything but the head. Cleaned and lubed but did not rebuild anything as I had no idea how.

I've worked with it the best I could over the past 2 years, but I am beginning to become fed up with its wear and misalignment, and it's stiffness in some areas.

I started with making a solid tool post so I could take the compound off and begin with that.
I've ordered some parts already and they're trickling in.
I started with putting a bearing in the hand crank as it was only sliding surfaces previously and it's difficult to tighten the nut and lead screw to eliminate slack and backlash while still being able to turn the crank.
Took me three swings which resulted in needing to push a brass bushing into the hole to fit the bearing because, mostly I'm a goof and miss target measurements, and because i ordered the wrong bearing to fit the lead screw, which resulted in the right bearing being 1mm smaller in diameter than the hole I bored. Yup, that's gonna happen a lot with this project... But it's all together and spins very nicely. It will be a joy to crank that wheel now.

Next issue is the dove tail. I'm not sure why but there is no undercut relief in the dove tail. The outside corner jams against the inside corner of the dove tail resulting in only the angle flat seating, and seating poorly. You can see light in the picture between the flats. There is only about 1/16" of meat that makes contact along the whole length of the non gib side, and I know the gib side is not better. Most of the scraping remains on the dovetail and the flats. I wonder if this compound had been rescraped at some point and someone didn't add another relief cut to the inside corner. The second reason I think that is because the scraping is rather erratic.

To start on the body of the compound, I cleaned up some surfaces and surface ground the face of the swivel. It was .005" convex. Cleaned up very nice.
This allowed me to put the base on the surface plate and start looking at surfaces. The flat mating surfaces slope .006". And the width of dove tails narrows by .0015" from end to end. Measured the best I could with a pair of 1/4" end mills and a 2-3 mic.

I'm not sure what my next step will be. Likely to setup and make the relief cut in the corner of the dove tail and see how the fit is after.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 11:29:20 PM by Carpenter84 »
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

gerritv

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 06:19:47 AM »
Those might not be marks from scraping but from oil retention scrapes. (not sure of the correct turn, too early in the morning). My King 1022 has scrapes as well, but not for alignment etc.

Also the dovetails will usually mate on 2 of the 3 surfaces afaik.

Carpenter84

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 07:27:06 AM »
Definitely not just half moons for oil. Usually half moons are pretty looking and reasonably evenly spaced. These look like someone hand scraped for fit. It looked like I scraped it. Lol. Very erratic. No pattern as Ivr seen in many scraping videos. Or even the original scrapings on my mill. What's odd to me is the fit up. Some of the scrapings still remain on the dovetail. So it almost looks like the fit up was jamming in the corner from day one of the previous rebuild. Which would be really sad for the previous rebuilder. I hope I can do better. Lol.
Also, the slope on the flats. It's relatively smooth and gradual, not like holes or pits.

I think my first operations will be to reform the dovetails with a dovetail cutter. But I'm a bit worried cause of the run out on my mill table. I likely won't get a true flat surface.
I'd like to redo the dovetails on my surface grinder, but I have to investigate that, no idea how to set that up or how to grind the wheel.

I tried my stock wheel on the cast iron last night. Worked fine. So, it seems I have two wheels to use for cast iron.
I need to figure out how to grind the angle on the wheel. Anyone want to pipe-in on that setup?
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

gerritv

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2018, 08:04:55 AM »
Quote
Definitely not just half moons for oil. Usually half moons are pretty looking and reasonably evenly spaced. These look like someone hand scraped for fit. It looked like I scraped it. Lol. Very erratic. No pattern as Ivr seen in many scraping videos.
That is what mine looked like, random direction gouges. It sounds as if 'someone has been in there' before you :-), perhaps best not to compare with what it should be. My local machine rebuilder confirmed they are for oil retention.

No photo unfortunately..

Carpenter84

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2018, 12:58:24 PM »
Half moons are for oil retention, yes. I'll try to get a better picture tonight. This just looked like someone went to town with a sharp screwdriver in attempts to "scrape" the surfaces. Not to mention it was all in vein due to the lack of undercut in the corner. Once I mill out clearance, it'll be interesting to see how the surfaces mate up. If they're flat or not. But in reality, I will likely re-machine all the surfaces in attempts to start fresh. I have no time limit on this compound. My lathe functions currently without it. So, I could spend the next 6 months rebuilding it. I'd like to think i will do a good job in the end.

Also, I'm thinking I may paint it red...
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2018, 12:47:11 AM »
Progress is;

I recut the dove tail on the mill and did a general clean up on the compound. Faces off some best up surfaces and bead blasted it all. Took off the grime and old paint.

I got that .005" taper out. It's flat on the surface plate to .0015".

I want to true it up much closer on the surface grinder in prep for scraping... 😳

I still need to figure out how to dress my surface grinder wheel to the included angle.
If someone can shoot some advise? I'll try to find some YouTube videos tonight.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2018, 07:23:58 AM »
I realize I need a sine dresser... So, I guess that's the next project
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2018, 07:43:49 AM »
Take the two stones you bought, submerge them in mineral spirits and gently hone the freshly machined surfaces, including the dovetails.  That way, you leave a few tool marks, which act as reservoirs for holding oil.  You'll be smoothing out the high spots on the surface.  This in my opinion would be better that trying to surface grind the surface to perfection.  The next best thing would be to scrape and fit the two members for a exact fit, that would also be much better than grinding.

You already improved the situation by re-machining the bearing surfaces.

Something else to do.  Where the dovetail comes to a intersecting point.  Need to cut a bevel or flat at the point of intersection big enough that it does not bottom out in the bottom of the dovetail of the mating part.  The other thing to do is take a tall back Saw-All blade, like the one I used on Bambam's cross slide to under cut the dovetails, too.  That Saw-All blade may be too big for your dovetail, so may have to use a regular hack saw blade.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 09:30:23 AM by 4GSR »
Ken

Carpenter84

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2018, 09:27:05 AM »
The saw blade! I SAW you do that and tried to make a mental note of it because that's exactly what I need to do. I was going to try to set something up in the mill! Guh...

The reason I wanted to surface grind was when I mic'd the dove tails with a pair of 1/4" end mills I still had .0015" variance between the dovetails. I don't know if that's because I didn't go deep enough or that's just the best my mill can do. I know my surface grinder can do much better than that.
I was thinking I would grind this male dovetail side then machine the female side. That way at least one surface is flat and smooth and the other mating surface would have grooves for oil. I haven't even tried to scrape yet, so zero confidence there. And I haven't built a straight edge either to actually check my scrapings... I've really throwing the cart before the horse here...

However, this is exactly what this thread is for. This is my first time properly rebuilding something. I'm going in green as grass. I'll take all the advice I can get.


I think, I will put the male dovetail back in the mill and try again to get rid of that .0015" taper. I'll just try once more. Maybe I overlooked something in the setup and wasn't totally true or flat in the vise. It's tricky because I don't have a good straight reference surface to indicate on this bottom half of the compound. All surfaces are rough castings. So, I might just make a flat surface and then build off that.
I know I have the bottom face parallel with the top face, maybe I can use that to create one good square flat edge on the side of the compound base. Refer to picture.

The other thing that's bothering me is the axial play in my mill spindle creating those striations when I face mill. I need to tighten the spindle lock nut again... Another job...
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 09:29:46 AM by Carpenter84 »
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

gtermini

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2018, 10:04:59 AM »
Don't worry about the cutter marks. As a matter of fact, they make it much easier to catch a bite with the scraper. There's nothing harder to scrape than a slick milled or ground surface.

I'd check tram on the mill head before tightening the bearings. It doesn't take much to knock a BP head out of square.

4GSR

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2018, 10:25:48 AM »
If your dovetail cutter is big enough, diameter wise, just mill the entire surface with.  Don't face mill it and come back and pick it up with your dovetail cutter.   If you have a fly cutter, use it.  Grind the cutter to match the dovetail angle, or at least a couple degrees less than the dovetail cutter angle.  That way you cover the entire surface at once.  Also, at the same depth, move over and mill the other dovetail, too.  That way, both surfaces are co-planer to each other.
Ken

Carpenter84

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2018, 10:27:57 AM »
Don't worry about the cutter marks. As a matter of fact, they make it much easier to catch a bite with the scraper. There's nothing harder to scrape than a slick milled or ground surface.

I'd check tram on the mill head before tightening the bearings. It doesn't take much to knock a BP head out of square.

Okay. I will check tram. But the axial movement really bothers me. Makes for very noisy machining.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2018, 10:35:50 AM »
If your dovetail cutter is big enough, diameter wise, just mill the entire surface with.  Don't face mill it and come back and pick it up with your dovetail cutter.   If you have a fly cutter, use it.  Grind the cutter to match the dovetail angle, or at least a couple degrees less than the dovetail cutter angle.  That way you cover the entire surface at once.  Also, at the same depth, move over and mill the other dovetail, too.  That way, both surfaces are co-planer to each other.

My dovetail cutter is big enough. Or, if not it would be like 90% big enough. But two passes would easily do it.

I didn't face mill it per say, I went in with a 1/2 end mill to rough the surface about .005" then went in with the dovetail cutter. To set the depth I just sat the cutter on the freshly milled surface and moved into the dovetail. Then moved over to the adjacent dovetail and did the same. but removed very little material. Maybe .005-6" each side. And still wound up with the .0015" difference. I locked the Y on each pass, but maybe it moved, OR,  the table twists when I lock. I have had a problem with the table moving when I lock the Y. Moves quite a bit actually... I can see it on the dro.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2018, 08:38:32 PM »
Did the undercut with a saws all blade. Worked perfectly.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2018, 10:04:01 PM »
That looks nice.  I think you have it there.  I bet it will cut much better now just reworking the slide.
Ken