Author Topic: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild  (Read 3987 times)

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2019, 01:10:49 PM »
Lol. That's okay, I think. Itll drip into a pan or inside the lathe case. Knowing me I'll do it once then put electric solenoids on them.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #61 on: May 18, 2019, 01:12:37 PM »
At $50 to my door, I think that's half decent for two basically new drippers. eBay had lots.of vintage ones but they're being sold as "vintage steam punk"....  ::) So they're way more expensive.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2019, 10:08:05 PM »
So, I noticed something tonight....

I've been using spindle oil on the taper roller bearing in the front of my lathe spindle. It has overtime now likely washed the old grease out. I heard some noise in the bearing spinning by hand tonight. Didn't sound crunchy, more like balls/needles rolling around in a cage... I hope...

But, a big question... Grease or oil in the bearing? What's everyone do, and why? Opinions on whether I should setup the oil drip I bought the gits oil dripper for, or pack with good grease?
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2019, 11:42:27 PM »
Holy moly I hope I don't regret this...  :o  :o :o
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #64 on: June 30, 2019, 01:16:49 AM »
Okay... So apparently I'm tearing down the head of my lathe... Haha.

This IS something I wanted to do for a long time, just never devoted the time. And apparently my wife being on Midnight's this weekend permits me to stay up reaaaaal late...

There were so many things that bugged me in the head. The pulley pillow block had a huge amount of play. The 6mm keys were worn to 5.92mm. Between the two created a lot of play. Which created noise. Two of the 6mm keys in the spindle are also worn enough to bug me. Again, creating noise, which usually showed up as knocking. The bearings in the pillow block are both crunchy.

There was a button oiler in the spindle pulley but it was clogged and jammed. Ive wanted to drill that out and replace it for over a year. So I always had to throw a deluge of spindle oil at all around the spindle pulley in order to keep the bronze bushings oiled. Always bothered me because after enough use the pulley section would drag enough that if I disengaged the pulleys and spun the spindle, the pulley would spin too. If it was soaked in oil it wouldn't move. So, I have new 8mm button oilers I've slowly been replacing when I'm able.

The spindle bearings don't sound bad, I cleaned them out completely. There's no damage, no crunchy, but you can see shiny wear on the race and needles. I looked up the bearings and they're about $40 each. So, worth replacing. Basically, I'm replacing every bearing and key in the head.

I'm also swapping the old 1hp 3ph 1100rpm motor for a 1.5hp 3ph 1740rpm motor that's much newer. I'd like to think I shouldn't be able to bog down a 1.5 HP motor with a cut...

Let's see, what else am I gonna do...?
Gonna clean up the banjo.
Maybe if I get more shop time this weekend I'll finally re-turn that eccentric clunky gear in the gear box...

I also found a broken tooth on the metric banjo gear. I did metric threads a few weeks ago. .75mm pitch threads, very fine. And it didn't skip a beat, so, the chip can't be detrimental.

Getting the spindle out was tricky... Required some serious brain storming to NOT use a lot of force. I realise going back in, I'll have the freeze the spindle for a better sliding fit as the spindle threads a whole line of needles in order to go in.
I still really need to replace the gear box legend before I lose the image completely...
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

chips and more

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #65 on: June 30, 2019, 07:03:37 AM »
Wow Shawn, you ain’t messin around! Looks good! And back to the very top of your post, I would use oil. Remember when putting her back together, no pressure on any bearings that allow force to transmit from a race through a steel ball/taper pin onto the other race. And pay VERY close attention to the main spindle pre-load…VERY close.

Terrywerm

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #66 on: June 30, 2019, 08:10:40 AM »

That project will keep you occupied for an hour or two.  :))


It all looks good, and I can see why you've been putting it off for a while. But, may as well do it all while it's apart.


What sort of a cleaning device is that in the second to last photograph? Or are you deep frying hand battered pork tenderloins for a midnight snack?
Terry

Making chips with old machines!

4GSR

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2019, 08:58:23 AM »
As Chips and Mare said, run the spindle bearings in oil.  They don't need a heavy oil, a ISO 32 or what ever you have on hand will work fine.  No way oil or gear oil.  I don't know the class precision of the bearings are now, may see if you can get at least a class 3 bearing. Don't get them from Princess Auto!  Back in the day, most machine tool manufactures would use class "0" or "00" precision bearings on the spindle.  Both of my Sheldons were like this, so was the L & S I had. 
Ken

Terrywerm

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2019, 09:04:01 AM »
By the way, Keith Rucker did a video on repairing cast iron gears, but you may not have all of the equipment available that he does, especially considering that our inexpensive indexing head deal fell through. But, since it is only one tooth, you could build it up by brazing and then hand filing the tooth to shape. I've also seen a method where it is done by making a new tooth from a piece of key stock which is then pinned and brazed to the gear. This would require milling away what is left of the old tooth first, then brazing or silver soldering the new key stock rough tooth into place. Last but not least, finish the new tooth by hand filing to the proper shape. It would take some work, but it would be doable with the equipment you have, assuming that you have an acetylene torch.
Terry

Making chips with old machines!

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2019, 09:32:04 AM »
Hahahaha. Tenderloin snackers while I work. It's an ultrasonic cleaner. Yes I know not to use ultra sonic on sensitive parts as it can pit surfaces.

Preload! Is absolutely something we're going to be talking about. I will also be talking to my bearing guy about that. One of the goals with cleaning so well is that going back together and tightening the spindle lock nut will be much smoother than before. No more hammer and punch to adjust the lock ring...
I also believe that much of the spindle assembly was pressed in. So I'll likely be figuring out how I can use any of my bearing pullers, assemblies, etc, to setup and press everything back into the housing instead of any kind of hammering or deadblow.

But ya, I have a list and will be replacing every bearing in the head, they're all suspect of bad.

I am rather surprised tho. For an Indian lathe, it seems well built. All castings are thick and heavy. Gears are solid, I'll look again, but they seem to be cast then cut instead of sintered/pressed, washers and collars are actual metal turned from bar stock, if there is a set screw anywhere, it's a dogpoint and it locks into its own hole or slot. If there is a button oiler, it goes into a bronze bushing with an oil groove.

However, I can see several signs this has been taken apart before by a hammer and chisel kind of guy. Wrench marks, monkey wrench jaw marks!
Someone wrenched so hard on the back side of the spindle bore it's ACTUALLY egg shaped now... I had to file down the jaw marks in order to get a collar and the feed gear off.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2019, 09:45:23 AM »
By the way, Keith Rucker did a video on repairing cast iron gears, but you may not have all of the equipment available that he does, especially considering that our inexpensive indexing head deal fell through. But, since it is only one tooth, you could build it up by brazing and then hand filing the tooth to shape. I've also seen a method where it is done by making a new tooth from a piece of key stock which is then pinned and brazed to the gear. This would require milling away what is left of the old tooth first, then brazing or silver soldering the new key stock rough tooth into place. Last but not least, finish the new tooth by hand filing to the proper shape. It would take some work, but it would be doable with the equipment you have, assuming that you have an acetylene torch.

I was thinking about the braze build up/file down method. Since the gear still works (obviously more than one tooth engagement, or there’s enough meat left to engage), and since I almost never do metric turning, this will be a project for future Shawn. Not right now.

And ken, I think my (spindle) oil is hydraulic oil iso 48. But I have to double check the viscosity. So, I will likely set up those oil drippers maybe. I have a bunch of the One Shot oiler pipette, my plan was to pipe the gits drippers and mount them further back on the machine, out of the way, so they’re not interfering with the housing lid.

The smaller bearings I’ll just get what the wholesale has on the shelf, then talk to him about the spindle bearings, and see my options. But, from the numbers on the bearings, they are not precision.... no other designations from the 5 numbers. I wonder if they’ve been changed before for cheapies. Because someone has obviously been inside the housing.
Oh, and the pillow block bearings are different. So someone has definitely changed them before.


Haha, all this started because I was going to instal way covers. Talk about diving into left field.
I really should just devote some time to finally rebuilding this lathe... finish the scraping. I’d need to put turcite on the saddle, it’s worn really badly. Maybe if I devote this whole week to rebuilding, I could finally be done...
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

woodchucker

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2019, 10:13:13 AM »

I was thinking about the braze build up/file down method. Since the gear still works (obviously more than one tooth engagement, or there’s enough meat left to engage), and since I almost never do metric turning, this will be a project for future Shawn. Not right now.



Shawn, easy enough to do it now. About 3 hours work maybe less. And then you don't have to take it apart again.
As Nike says... JUST DO IT!
Jeff
Clausing 8520   SB Model 9a - power hacksaw, Milwaukee band saw in a table.  Delta Rockwell Surface Grinder (not online yet .. being rebuilt where am I going to stick this)
For pics: https://imgur.com/user/woodchucker/posts

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2019, 10:19:52 AM »

I was thinking about the braze build up/file down method. Since the gear still works (obviously more than one tooth engagement, or there’s enough meat left to engage), and since I almost never do metric turning, this will be a project for future Shawn. Not right now.



Shawn, easy enough to do it now. About 3 hours work maybe less. And then you don't have to take it apart again.
As Nike says... JUST DO IT!
Actually, that metric gear it literally the ONLY gear I can remove without having to remove 5 other things.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2019, 02:17:01 PM »
I suppose I should put all that lathe tear down stuff in here...

Anyone used the turcite or rulon stuff? I’ve been watching some videos, seems easy enough to use. No insight on what epoxy to use, tho. Also, where to buy?
Is it this stuff? Half way down you find narrower strips starting at .020” thick.
https://www.mcmaster.com/turcite
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Terrywerm

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Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2019, 03:04:48 PM »

You want Turcite B, greenish blue in color, the stuff you are looking at is Delrin. Definitely not the right stuff.


You can buy the stuff you want at the following link, but get ready to bend over, it isn't cheap.


https://www.professionalplastics.com/TURCITEB


If you do some looking around I am sure you'll be able to find other suppliers for it, and hopefully at better prices too.
Terry

Making chips with old machines!