Author Topic: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild  (Read 4728 times)

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #150 on: August 08, 2019, 10:43:44 AM »
I wanted to echo that I've had no joy when using the link belts.  Always could get them to slip unless they were loaded to an extreme. Some folks swear by'em.  I'm not one of those!


I respect other people’s opinions, you use what works for you. I on the other hand, have used nothing but link belts for 30+yrs, never had any issues. I run them in both directions on a daily basis. I use them in the home shop and use them exclusively at work, have sold thousands of them, to my customers, with absolutely no issues.

I'm not disregarding the fact that they may work in other situations, just not mine. And I think it may have had a lot to do with the fact that the belt was constantly oily.

The link belt I had on the motor to back pulley never had an issue, cause it was always dry. But my spindle belt slipped under load. Then I was playing a balancing act between tight enough to not slip and overloading the spindle - or driving my running amps too high.

That said, i did enjoy the lump-less running... The belts were noisy in that they made a little sound with each passing segment - a buzz, but they didn't lump... The brand new belt I put on the spindle is already lumpy. It wasn't a super cheap belt either. A segmented belt. But I can feel the lap locations of the various materials in the belt... I don't like it. It makes for much more noise than before.
Even the kevlar belt I have on the motor currently has a small lump. Not nearly as bad as the spindle belt - but naturally it has to be the spindle belt that's already going to crap..........
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #151 on: August 08, 2019, 12:54:21 PM »
The old redundant A, B, C, D, and E section vee belts are so antiquate to use today.  I hate them, but so many machine tools are designed and built using them that's there's no way to get around it, ever! (I won't bring up the 3-L, 4-l, 5-L vee belts here) Back in my younger years, we used to design drive trains and such using the 3-V and 5-V section vee belts.  They pull the same amount of HP/torque, but with lesser resistance.  HDT style timing belts were next.  I don't know what they are called today, it's a whole different system of numbers and are available.  The perfect belting system I like is the Poly-Vee.  It's essentially a flat belt with "ribs" or "vees" on the underside of the belt.  Serpentine belts, some call them.  They do take up some room width wise, but can handle fairly good torque that you don't get out of a flat belt and most vee belts. 

Shawn, I know on your lathe, you're pretty much stuck with what you have without doing major redesign to make a Poly-Vee belt to work.  Did I mention 4-L and 5-L belts?  They are a lighter duty belt verses A-Section and B-Section belts are.  The L-series belts will fit in place of a A or B section belt with some HP/ torque loss,  but may reduce most of the "thump" noise you are getting.  Another option to think about. 

Ken

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #152 on: August 08, 2019, 02:26:52 PM »
I'm not pushing my lathe so hard that I'd make a standard belt slip, because I just don't have the HP... Well I do, but I never changed my vfd when I put the 1.5hp motor on. And frankly, the current setup will do everything I want. In fact, it runs really quite well now! (There's a funny sticktion in the spindle bearings, but I'll bring that up separately)
My issue is playing with the belt tension to get rid of the dang lumping noise without slipping. If I crank up the belt to grab real well, I get the lumping and quite a bit of noise from all bearings associated with that belt tension, and it raises my running amps. And I don't like any of those things...

I am not opposed to changing the belt design. It wouldn't be the first step pulley I've made. The machinists handbook has a bunch of useful info in that field.

How do poly-vee belts do with changing pulleys? I'm variable speed, but I still use the step pulleys if I want to drastically change the speed. I try to keep the motor between 75% - 110% speed to keep running amps down or I overload the vfd (yes, I should get a proper sized VFD for my motor... Eventually)

Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #153 on: August 08, 2019, 02:28:15 PM »
In fact, making a poly-vee pulley would be easier than a normal vee belt... instead of having to hog out the vee's, I'd just make a form tool to make each small vee. Actually, likely a lot less work.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #154 on: October 10, 2019, 12:20:21 AM »
The wife has a big exam coming up this weekend to be “Board certified neurological and psychiatric of pharmacy something something”.... so, she’s been studying pretty hard the past few months. Now this week she’s been cramming like no bodies business. So, shop work has ground to a halt so I can be home to let her study. However, after the boy is asleep she’s been studying until pretty late, it’s given me some home shop time.
I started trying to figure out how I want to add the cross slide dro scale. A way that won’t get in the way of the tail stock... hasn’t been easy. What I’ve come up with is mounting the scale to a big piece of angle that is screwed to the carriage. And the angle hangs way off the back of it, then a heavy bracket from the cross slide connects the scale.... a long story short, this has caused me to remove the cross slide, mill most of the faces and sides to clean it up, and completely re-scrape it and the saddle..... I also plan on modifying the way covers and guarding, something that will also encompass the scale. Found a nice big piece of 14 awg stainless sheet metal at the farm house today. Should come in handy.

Anyways. Scraping the cross slide. I think this might be a good stopping point. I need to figure out what to do with the gib. A non tapered style gib. I ground it lightly to get rid of the wear ridge, and I bent it a bit to get a bow out. But, what now? Do I grind it flat? Scrape it flat? Leave it? How flat could I hope to get it? I feel it will be difficult to get the bow to permanently stay out.



Uhhg... I’m undecided as to whether to remove the saddle to scrape it, or leave it on the bed... if I remove it, I damn well know I should fix the saddle as well, and do the turcite finally... I wasn’t planning on this right now....


Edit: yes, there is a terrible oil groove in there. I added that some time ago. One of the times I had the cross slide off for cleaning, I think, and I was adding/fixing push button oilers. It does work quite well actually. One pump squeezes oil out the whole length of the way, and the movement stays smooth much longer than before.

Oh, I emailed a guy I found on another forum a few months ago, he said on the forum that he had the manual for this lathe. He finally got back to me, sent me the manual. We got into a conversation about this lathe, he said he owned the se one about 5 years ago, but it was damaged in a lightning storm and the insurance company took the lathe and gave him a brand new 14"x60" something. But he said the lathe had a plate that said induction hardened bed ways!
I don't have that tag, nor do I see a location where it once was... But he had the exact same model as me. So, mild hope for a hardened bed. Which would compute with the lack.of wear on the ways, and the staggering wear on the bottom of the saddle.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 12:27:08 AM by Carpenter84 »
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #155 on: October 10, 2019, 07:52:41 AM »
Shawn,

I call that darn good, no need to scrape any more on that part of the slide.  As for the gib, since it is a straight gib, straighten it as good as you can get it.  Sounds like you did that part.  Next, do a little scraping on it to get your bearing points and at least touching on the ends for a 70% bearing coverage or better on the dovetail.  I wouldn't spend too much time on straight gibs on fitting.  That is a easy gib compared to a tapered gib.
A little tip I use when scraping a gib.  Get you some small finishing nails, if you can still buy them, and drive them into a 2 x 4 or your bench top around the gib to where they are flush with the top of the gib.  Doing this will hold it from moving around while you scrape on it.  Not every one has a magnetic chuck to hold a gib with.
Ken :49:
Ken

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #156 on: October 12, 2019, 08:02:57 PM »
That super heavy Sanders Hylo clapped out vise finally came in handy. I'm glad I'm finally starting to grow out of selling things the second I don't have a use for them... And grew into my old man pack rat phase... I feel ill fit right in here!!
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #157 on: October 12, 2019, 08:09:45 PM »
In case anyone was wondering, I finished the cross slide. Haven't done the gib yet, altho I ground it and semi straightened it. This is a 13" straight edge I cut out of that huge old cast iron wood planer table I posted about a while back - to scrape and spot the saddle portion of the cross slide. It should also be long enough to do the mill Y table. But I don't have a very good dove tail cut in this. I did cut one, but only for clearance for now. And it's too small to be useful for anything.

Still have a ways to go...
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #158 on: October 12, 2019, 09:27:15 PM »
Uhhg. This thing just turns into more and more work... I wondered what the scoring on the bottom of the cross slide was...
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #159 on: October 12, 2019, 10:15:31 PM »
Ok, ken, I some advice here...

I took the carriage off. Cleaned it up. I have my new straight edge sitting across the bottom of it, the surface I was going to place on the surface plate in order to indicate the cross slide flats. Either the carriage was milled (yes it's a milled surface finish) funny, or the carriage is twisted.

There's three surfaces referenced here. The fat side on the left and the skinny side on the right. The far left of the fat side is angled away, .018" at the edge.
Is this something that I should care about? There should be enough weight in the middle of the carriage to not give me issues trying to indicate the cross slide, but still... Gotta ask. 
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #160 on: October 12, 2019, 10:39:36 PM »
Errr.... what?
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

4GSR

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #161 on: October 13, 2019, 08:32:57 AM »
Shawn,

Don't let that scare you.  There's noting written in stone that the top and bottom has to be parallel to the top.  Just means you need to shim it up by about .055" roughly.  Every lathe I've worked on, there was no relationship top to bottom being parallel without doing some sort of shimming to get the top parallel to the bottom.

Ken
Ken

Carpenter84

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #162 on: October 13, 2019, 03:12:48 PM »
Well that's irritating... My plate isn't bit enough for this thing as it is...

Hooray... More challenges.
Shawn

First 9x42 column mill,
Enterprise 10x28 lathe,
Ko Lee 6x12 surface grinder,
Airco dip/stick 160 welder,
Fully stocked wood shop.

Machinists Gazette

Re: MySore Kirloskar Enterprise 10 rebuild
« Reply #162 on: October 13, 2019, 03:12:48 PM »